.·:*¨¨*:·. *Jewelz* .·:*¨¨*:·. ([info]jewe1z) wrote in [info]booju_mooju,
2010-03-03 07:38:00
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Bug Squashing Deer Hunting Toddlers

A friend of mine recently posted on her facebook something like "This morning I caught my 5 year old killing bugs in the garden and had to have a talk with him. Please teach your children to respect life!"

I was surprised how much of a debate this comment caused! Some people told her killing bugs was an excellent way to teach "cause and effect," others just laughed it off and said "They're only bugs. It's not like he was abusing a dog." and yet others completely agreed with her - unless a creature poses a threat, you should teach children to respect it and leave it be, particularly outside.

I then saw this clip from that Toddlers and Tiaras show on The Soup. Not that the premise behind pageant moms isn't an entire debate in itself, but how do you feel about taking a toddler deer hunting?

Where do you draw the line?

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  • 42 comments

[info]lisasimpsonfan

March 3 2010, 12:51:47 UTC 2 years ago

I do agree that you don't kill bugs just to kill them. That is a great learning opportunity for the parent to talk about all the good things bugs do for us, the animals, plants and environment. While I wouldn't take that young of a child hunting because of the danger I would take an older child if they wanted to go. I grew up in a hunter friendly environment where plenty of families hunted to put food on their table and would have gone hungry if they didn't hunt. My daughter has never been hunting but I have made sure she has ALWAYS known where her food comes from.

[info]ladyelysium

March 3 2010, 13:05:35 UTC 2 years ago

What the bloody hell is this Toddlers and Tiaras show?!

[info]jewe1z

March 3 2010, 13:11:10 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  March 3 2010, 13:11:24 UTC

I've never seen an episode but at lot of their clips make it to "The Soup" which is a weekly recap show of all the trainwrecks on TV.

If you've never heard of toddler pageants you might be in for a bit of a shock!

[info]ladyelysium

March 3 2010, 13:16:17 UTC 2 years ago

Oh God.. There is something so very wrong with this concept. I just saw a trailer and there is this teeny, tiny little girl GYRATING... with her Mum showing her what to do!

Those better be some damn big cash prizes for demeaning your child like that.

[info]nightfun

2 years ago

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[info]lemon_says

March 3 2010, 13:15:19 UTC 2 years ago

It's on TLC, and if you've never seen an episode, you ought to. It'll leave you with your mouth hanging open in horror.

[info]ladyelysium

2 years ago

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[info]coinin

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[info]itsjustaphase

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[info]mahasin

March 3 2010, 13:24:35 UTC 2 years ago

I'd take an opportunity of my kid squashing bugs to explain cause and effect but I also don't really have a problem with taking your kid hunting if they enjoy it. I mean, Toddlers and Tiaras is an epic trainwreck and something wasn't right about that kid, but wanting to go hunting wasn't quite it.

In some places hunting is a way of life, it is a survivalist skill, etc etc.

The other day I was watching a rerun of Grey's Anatomy and one of the Doctors was trying to save a deer's life and the dad was getting frustrated and finally blurted out that "they wanted the deer dead so they could take it home and eat it" and that the kid loved hamburgers and the beef came from a cow. The kid basically broke into tears because he didn't understand where his meat came from.

In short, hunting = okay when done properly with proper protection and lessons etc etc.

Random bug killing = not okay, unless they eat the bugs... then I guess it's ok

[info]jewe1z

March 3 2010, 13:56:10 UTC 2 years ago

something wasn't right about that kid, but wanting to go hunting wasn't quite it.

Yeah you got it right. It was the sadistic pleasure she seemed to take in dismembering it. And the way she licked her lips and wiggled her eyebrows!

I have hunters in my family but none of them have ever taken a child barely out of diapers hunting and butchering. I wonder if she just looked at it like a game of real life mr potato head.

[info]sueg

March 3 2010, 13:55:03 UTC 2 years ago

The way the kid was talking about chopping up the deer was a little disturbing, but I would be willing to bet the interviewer was giving her reactions to keep her going. Really, I'm not personally interested in hunting but I don't think there's anything wrong with it - I think hunting for food is more ethical/humane than buying industrial meat, for sure. So I think it's fine to take kids hunting so they can understand where meat comes from. The pageants are another story - much more worrying. And I would strongly discourage my kid from squashing bugs unless they were a threat (mosquitos, ticks) or if they wanted to take up eating bugs, I guess, and knew which kinds were tasty.

[info]lustychan

March 3 2010, 13:59:10 UTC 2 years ago

Personally, we try to teach that ALL life has value. Even little bugs. That doesn't mean that we never kill things. Sometimes it's pretty necessary. But there has to be a darn good reason. We believe in reincarnation and so who knows if a creature is someone you knew at one time or another?

At the same time, I don't have a problem with hunting IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONSUME YOUR GAME! Same goes for fishing. I do not agree with hunting for sport, but I think going out to kill something for food is probably a better way of doing things than going out to the grocery store and grabbing your already cut-up beef or what have you. I think it's important for children (and adults!) to fully realize where their food comes from, and to own up to it.

Other people can think whatever they want, but this is what we try to instill in our children.

[info]neptune_melody

March 4 2010, 03:50:37 UTC 2 years ago

I agree; sport/trophy hunting is just not right in my book.
I do agree that it's a more humane way to get food if you can kill an animal quickly with one shot. Bow hunting on the other hand seems beyond inhumane to me; I've seen animals still alive with several arrows in their bodies.
Personally I don't like the thought of killing any living creature if it can be avoided, which is why I enjoy a vegetarian lifestyle.

[info]sarawr

March 3 2010, 14:33:37 UTC 2 years ago

I draw the line pretty near where your friend does -- I teach my kid to be respectful of all life, including bugs and plants. It has a lot to do with my personal spiritual beliefs, though, and I'm not particularly shocked or appalled that most people are fine with squishing bugs, picking plants willy-nilly, etc. It's not an "everyone should do this" belief so much as it is an "it's important for us to do this" one.

[info]daemon82

March 3 2010, 14:42:09 UTC 2 years ago

I'm sort of with lustychan up there. Unless you have a reason to kill something, don't (bugs in the house can be squashed/sprayed, bugs in the forest should not be, and some bugs are ok in places where others aren't - like ladybugs in the garden). Killing something for food is ok, killing something just to have a trophy on the wall is not. And if for any reason, you must kill something, you should do so in a respectful and quick way. That means no tearing wings off of flies or shooting a deer and then watching it struggle as it slowly bleeds to death.

[info]alacrity_danger

March 3 2010, 14:54:24 UTC 2 years ago

Killing bugs is mean and I hope my daughter doesn't ever do things like that. We would certainly end up having a chat.

I come from a family of hunters and the whole thing horrified me. I hope my daughter does not see such things until she is much older.

[info]boomstick

March 3 2010, 15:43:14 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  March 3 2010, 15:48:03 UTC

To be honest I'd rather see a kid growing up learning to hunt and use what he kills instead of hanging around pulling the legs off of bugs just for funsies.

Also I think it's hard for a child to understand that bugs are living creatures too...a lot of them resemble plants. They don't really make noise when they're hurt. They don't have facial features that show pain. So I think a lot of kids don't understand that bugs feel pain as well. It's good to let your kid know that bugs DO feel pain as much as we do, but the message might get lost if they see you swatting a fly or flicking an ant or something. But at least let them know.

[info]summer_mommy

March 3 2010, 16:19:06 UTC 2 years ago

Well -- I am of the party that scolds my daughter if she just starts stomping on bugs. I don't feel that there is any reason to stomp on bugs just for "fun." Especially if they are out side. I don't make a huge deal of it, but I do redirect her to something else.

As for taking a toddler deer hunting... I am a vegetarian. So noone would be taking my kid deer hunting, period. lol. (For the record, my daughter is being raised eating meat and will be able to make her own decision when she is older). But I wouldn't want my grade schooler going out hunting where there are guns and potential for nasty gun-related accidents anyway.

[info]hep

March 3 2010, 16:25:22 UTC 2 years ago

our children learn to hunt and butcher as soon as they can walk aka start helping with chores. we live on a working farm and don't have the luxury of turning up our noses at work to put food on the table. life is a lot different when you don't do your hunting in the refrigerated meat section of the grocery store.

[info]diamondeyes

March 3 2010, 16:27:41 UTC 2 years ago

that sounds so awesome haha

[info]breakableheart

March 3 2010, 16:25:50 UTC 2 years ago

My Buddhist MIL and husband encourage a respect for all life forms, from the least to the greatest. I try to promote their views and teach my son to do the same. We often talk about the beneficial insects and spiders around our yard.

As long as the deer are used for meat and not trophy hunting I have no issue with taking a child deer hunting. Respectful use of an animal is not hypocritical. Even tiara wearing little girls need to eat.

[info]diamondeyes

March 3 2010, 16:26:48 UTC 2 years ago

IF deer hunting is a family thing then by all means go with it.

What is right for one family isn't always right for the next. Killing bugs is killing bugs, lol - it's what kids do. If the child is safe and away from harm by all means, take em deer hunting!

[info]uberliz

March 3 2010, 16:53:08 UTC 2 years ago

Every family is different.

The family who has a farm and supplements with deer meat; taking little Tina hunting may be family tradition and teaching her about her future responsibilities.

For me, it would really depend on the context of how the bug was killed. If he was standing out there frying ants with a magnifying glass, I'd be upset. If a bug crawled out of the grass and he was surprised by it and smashed it on first instinct (fight or flight) I would try to explain to him that the bug was probably just checking him out and next time to get up and move away from the bug.

[info]orbg

March 3 2010, 17:08:18 UTC 2 years ago

I think it's definitely a good thing to teach your kid not to kill/hurt things just to do it/just for fun. I don't believe in hunting, so I definitely wouldn't take my kid. Even if I did, that seems really dangerous.

[info]sblmnldrknss

March 3 2010, 18:42:01 UTC 2 years ago

We kill bugs in our house because it's our house and not theirs. But outside is the bugs', and we don't hurt bugs outside if we can help it.

As for hunting.... I'm not ok with hunting in general, so I wouldn't be ok with a child doing it, either.

[info]rhi_baby_book

March 3 2010, 20:43:41 UTC 2 years ago

I would definitely tell my children not to kill - no, it wouldn't be as bad as abusing a dog but they still need to learn not to abuse the power they have over things or people weaker than them.

[info]medea34

March 4 2010, 03:08:55 UTC 2 years ago

i can't get too worked up about the bugs. i am a pretty normal person and i killed a few bugs (for entertainment purposes) in my childhood. i think its something you let the child do and reason out on their own (sort of like masterbating - who really wants their parents to know that they are experimenting with sex or death).

using it to teach cause and effect strikes me as a little cruel/cold. teaching kids to treat creatures with respect is admirable, but comes with some baggage down the road. we treat all sorts of animals that don't pose a threat to us horribly (factory farmed food animals come to mind) so while i think we should encourage our kids to respect animals - there should be no surprise when they refuse to eat the products that cruelty produces.

a toddler deer hunting doesn't sound like a good plan to me. hunting is dangerous. evem without the guns, its going deep into the wild. once you add in the guns and wild animals - recipe for an injured, missing or very frightened toddler. also, having a two year (that cries, giggles, poops and naps, can't walk quietly or carry their own gear) in your hunting party is not likely to improve your odds of successfully stalking and killing something. i went on my first hunt when i was about 7 (capable of holding my bladder, keeping my mouth shut and understanding that it was very important to do what i was told).

[info]coinin

March 5 2010, 19:24:42 UTC 2 years ago

Man, I was that kid with the magnifying glass and the ant hill, and I give no illusions (intentionally, anyway) of being a 100% well adjusted adult today, so I'd prolly pull my kid aside if I saw her doing that and have a discussion of "bugs are like cats, you have to be nice to them, too."

The hunting thing, though, doesn't bother me so much, assuming the person taking her hunting is making it a point to take ever precaution to keep the kid safe, and it's not just sport hunting, but hunting for food and the person treats the deer they kill with respect and make the death as quick and painless as humanly possible.

Now, having that child in a pageant like that is something else. I've occasionally entertained the idea of having my baby be a child model, but on closer inspection I decided I couldn't do that to my little girl (even though I'm almost positive we could strike it rich!). It's just too dehumanizing to me. There are mothers who do it as a way to bond with their daughters, which I get, but then there's those crazy moms who make their daughters cry for wanting to act like little girls, not like 20-something year old models.
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